2015 election / politics thread

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2015 election / politics thread

Post by Casmania » 28 Mar 2015, 18:37

Please post non Tigers related comments here - thank you
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Re: 2015 election / politics thread

Post by Raj Poot Wildcat » 29 Mar 2015, 12:30

As a floating voter I've still to make my mind up. I'm considering voting UKIP as a protest but largely the political class are just a bunch of self serving Career man that would sell you down the river for any personal gain.

By far the biggest Issue facing the country is the deficit and debt levels the country is running and non of the parties will tell the truth about the cuts or tax rises that will come after the Election. The magic money tree has died were next for UK Economy?

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Re: 2015 election / politics thread

Post by Danny Boy » 29 Mar 2015, 12:44

Raj Poot Wildcat wrote:As a floating voter I've still to make my mind up. I'm considering voting UKIP as a protest but largely the political class are just a bunch of self serving Career man that would sell you down the river for any personal gain.

By far the biggest Issue facing the country is the deficit and debt levels the country is running and non of the parties will tell the truth about the cuts or tax rises that will come after the Election. The magic money tree has died were next for UK Economy?
Voting for UKIP just about sums you up!
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Re: 2015 election / politics thread

Post by Raj Poot Wildcat » 29 Mar 2015, 13:24

Danny Boy wrote:
Raj Poot Wildcat wrote:As a floating voter I've still to make my mind up. I'm considering voting UKIP as a protest but largely the political class are just a bunch of self serving Career man that would sell you down the river for any personal gain.

By far the biggest Issue facing the country is the deficit and debt levels the country is running and non of the parties will tell the truth about the cuts or tax rises that will come after the Election. The magic money tree has died were next for UK Economy?
Voting for UKIP just about sums you up!
I said considering, any explanation why you come up with that quote? Unlike other voters I don't vote tribal the politicians have to earn my vote. If everyone had that attitude politics would work better for people.

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Re: 2015 election / politics thread

Post by Aid » 29 Mar 2015, 21:07

Raj Poot Wildcat wrote:As a floating voter I've still to make my mind up. I'm considering voting UKIP as a protest but largely the political class are just a bunch of self serving Career man that would sell you down the river for any personal gain.

By far the biggest Issue facing the country is the deficit and debt levels the country is running and non of the parties will tell the truth about the cuts or tax rises that will come after the Election. The magic money tree has died were next for UK Economy?
If you think that the public deficit and debt are 'by far the biggest issue facing the economy' then you are economically illiterate. The skills shortage, personal debt (which is rising again) the trade deficit and the threat of deflation, are much more serious than either the deficit or overall public debt. Financing the public debt takes less than five percent of public spending. Most households with a mortgage would be delighted if only 5% of their total income was needed to pay their mortgage.

And, in 2007,just before the BANKING crisis, total government debt was LOWER than what Labour had inherited from the tories in 1997. Indeed public debt was higher every year of John Majors government than it was from 1997 to 2007 under Labour. After the INTERNATIONAL BANKING crash caused by the bankers (no doubt you blame the Labour Government) the Labour government increased public spending to counter the private sector slum (solid Keynesian economics, google it) And it was working which is why The Tories inherited a growing economy ( 4 quarters of growth) and falling unemployment. It was the austerity policies of Osbourne that pushed the UK into the worst recession since the 1930s.

Where I would give Cameron and Osbourne a lot of credit is that they have successful rewritten history so that about 30% of the electorate believe that the banking crisis was caused by Gordon Brown and Ed Balls.

What they can be blamed for is continuing the Thatcher/Major policy of deregulating the financial sector which enabled the banking crash to happen. By the way in 2006 George Osbourne visited Dublin, extolled the Irish economy and called for more deregulation in the UK financial sector. Right up until the banking crash Osbourne also said that he would stick to Labours spending plans after the 2010 General Election. So he did not consider the level of Government debt to be an issue then.

My view is that they have used the issue of Debt as an excuse to cut the state, attack local government (which they hate) and bash the poor and vulnerable,which is their favourite hobby.

And, no I am not Ed Balls, nor a Labour Party member or indeed supporter.
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Re: 2015 election / politics thread

Post by Raj Poot Wildcat » 30 Mar 2015, 16:07

Aid wrote:
Raj Poot Wildcat wrote:As a floating voter I've still to make my mind up. I'm considering voting UKIP as a protest but largely the political class are just a bunch of self serving Career man that would sell you down the river for any personal gain.

By far the biggest Issue facing the country is the deficit and debt levels the country is running and non of the parties will tell the truth about the cuts or tax rises that will come after the Election. The magic money tree has died were next for UK Economy?
Aid wrote:If you think that the public deficit and debt are 'by far the biggest issue facing the economy' then you are economically illiterate. The skills shortage, personal debt (which is rising again) the trade deficit and the threat of deflation, are much more serious than either the deficit or overall public debt. Financing the public debt takes less than five percent of public spending. Most households with a mortgage would be delighted if only 5% of their total income was needed to pay their mortgage.
Aid wrote:And, in 2007,just before the BANKING crisis, total government debt was LOWER than what Labour had inherited from the tories in 1997. Indeed public debt was higher every year of John Majors government than it was from 1997 to 2007 under Labour. After the INTERNATIONAL BANKING crash caused by the bankers (no doubt you blame the Labour Government) the Labour government increased public spending to counter the private sector slum (solid Keynesian economics, google it) And it was working which is why The Tories inherited a growing economy ( 4 quarters of growth) and falling unemployment. It was the austerity policies of Osbourne that pushed the UK into the worst recession since the 1930s.

Where I would give Cameron and Osbourne a lot of credit is that they have successful rewritten history so that about 30% of the electorate believe that the banking crisis was caused by Gordon Brown and Ed Balls.

What they can be blamed for is continuing the Thatcher/Major policy of deregulating the financial sector which enabled the banking crash to happen. By the way in 2006 George Osbourne visited Dublin, extolled the Irish economy and called for more deregulation in the UK financial sector. Right up until the banking crash Osbourne also said that he would stick to Labours spending plans after the 2010 General Election. So he did not consider the level of Government debt to be an issue then.

My view is that they have used the issue of Debt as an excuse to cut the state, attack local government (which they hate) and bash the poor and vulnerable,which is their favourite hobby.

And, no I am not Ed Balls, nor a Labour Party member or indeed supporter.
And you call me Economically illterate. The cost of servicing the debt is around £50Billion a year imagine what kind of public services that will buy. If we carry on running a deficit that is just going to grow till the IMF get called and then you will see real austerity. It impossible see how we can keep running s deficit when we have a debt to GDP ratio of 80%. Thats before we even start looking at unfunded liabilities. We owe £40k per tax payer, when is this unethical borrowing off our kids and grand kids over? At some point it has to be paid back or inflated away. All for what so we can have a standard of living that we can't afford. Only when we start to run a surplus will we start to see how rich we are.

I agree with you on the Bankers but what is anyone proposing? While we have an revolving door from the political industry to the banking industry moral hazard will remain. Not one party is addressing that.

In fairness to Labour they were following Tory spending plans until 2001. At which point they were running surpluses. It was in 2001 when they finally got their own mandate that the Maximum Imbecile went completely insane. It was 2001/2 when he hired one million additional public sector workers and began paying them with borrowed money. A situation that endures to this day.

By 2007/8 he'd completely screwed the UK economy. Six years of Labour economic policy was all it took to completely screw the UK. Folk think it was 13 years but it was those six years that were the critical ones. It was then that the seeds of our economic destruction were sown. We was never in a situation to handle the banking crisis when we was so over leveraged.

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Re: 2015 election / politics thread

Post by onetiger » 30 Mar 2015, 16:32

to cut the debt we should
1 get out of europe
2 stop sending millions to countrys who do not need it
3 stop hs2
4 do not get trident
them four points i stated cost the country billions

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Re: 2015 election / politics thread

Post by Raj Poot Wildcat » 30 Mar 2015, 17:17

onetiger wrote:to cut the debt we should
1 get out of europe
2 stop sending millions to countrys who do not need it
3 stop hs2
4 do not get trident
them four points i stated cost the country billions
That would be a good start unfortunately the main 3 parties all have an unmovable consensus on these issues. To hell with the electorate.

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Re: 2015 election / politics thread

Post by onetiger » 30 Mar 2015, 20:25

you get told to vote things will change -well nothing changed in years n years each one thinks of them self first

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Re: 2015 election / politics thread

Post by Bramley Tiger » 31 Mar 2015, 11:07

I will be voting UKIP for the first time.only 2 parties can get elected but hopefully they will be diminished over time allowing for some reforms to take place.

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Re: 2015 election / politics thread

Post by *The Jester* » 31 Mar 2015, 14:17

Good afternoon everyone,

It would seem that even though Aid claims not to be a Labour supporter, he absolves Labour of any contribution to the current financial mess and blames the Conservatives for the current predicament. Brilliant. I believe Orwell called this doublethink.

The state IS too big and local government is NOT properly accountable. Both need fixing. We need a bonfire of the quangos and more direct democracy. This would be a beneficial act whatever the state of the economy.

Yours in politics,
The Jester

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Re: 2015 election / politics thread

Post by WF10 » 31 Mar 2015, 19:49

The deficit is a massive red herring which they've convinced everybody that it matters.

We haven't balanced the books for centuries, which hasn't impeded our ability to lend from the money markets, plus zero % rates has made lending cheaper than ever.

It's painful to listen to both parties parrot the same neo-liberal nonsense. Both carefully toeing party scripts terrified of putting a foot out of place.

Bottom line - until the banks are reigned in nothing will change.
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Re: 2015 election / politics thread

Post by WF10 » 02 Apr 2015, 22:00

Nicola Sturgeon did very well tonight on the itv debate.
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Re: 2015 election / politics thread

Post by Casmania » 03 Apr 2015, 19:04

Have voted labour all my life, but not this time, I will be voting for someone else. They need to listen to the common man.
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Re: 2015 election / politics thread

Post by WF10 » 03 Apr 2015, 23:30

Who then? & why?
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Re: 2015 election / politics thread

Post by WF10 » 01 May 2015, 11:37

Anyone see that 'totally unbiased' BBC question time last night? How can they (the beeb) get away with it?
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Re: 2015 election / politics thread

Post by duke street 10 » 06 May 2015, 17:25

Can't vote for a guy who shafted his own brother to get the top job. Whatever he has said or done since just can't be trusted in my book.

Could you imagine Ed at summit trying to play hard ball with Putin,or the European leaders? My Tax and N.I contributions will sky rocket as well if he gets in.

I won't be voting for Labour this time around (always have previously).

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Re: 2015 election / politics thread

Post by onetiger » 06 May 2015, 20:36

awwwwwww the torys are such a power house in europe what did they tell our priminister stop moaning or leave
i trust labour much more than any tory goverment -

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Re: 2015 election / politics thread

Post by alftupper » 07 May 2015, 13:24

How anybody can contemplate voting for labour is beyond me after the mess they made of the economy the last time.
Every Labour government since the war has left the economy in a worse state than they found it, the last time in '97 they inherited a budget that was more or less balanced, Brown then went on a reckless spending spree and by the time they lost the 2010 election the deficit was almost £200b.

And who was advising Brown during those spend, spend, spend years? yes Miliband and Balls. It's quite unbelievable that the British public could soon vote these two in as Prime Minister and Chancellor respectively.

The Tory and Lib Dem coalition has done a good job in halving this deficit, it will be an absolute disaster if Labour were to be let anywhere near the purse strings of this country.

Five years ago the Labour governments legacy was a note stating 'there's no money left' today the new government will inherit an economy well on the road to recovery.

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Re: 2015 election / politics thread

Post by Aid » 07 May 2015, 15:00

alftupper wrote:How anybody can contemplate voting for labour is beyond me after the mess they made of the economy the last time.
Every Labour government since the war has left the economy in a worse state than they found it, the last time in '97 they inherited a budget that was more or less balanced, Brown then went on a reckless spending spree and by the time they lost the 2010 election the deficit was almost £200b.

And who was advising Brown during those spend, spend, spend years? yes Miliband and Balls. It's quite unbelievable that the British public could soon vote these two in as Prime Minister and Chancellor respectively.

The Tory and Lib Dem coalition has done a good job in halving this deficit, it will be an absolute disaster if Labour were to be let anywhere near the purse strings of this country.

Five years ago the Labour governments legacy was a note stating 'there's no money left' today the new government will inherit an economy well on the road to recovery.
Complete and utter hogwash, you are just spouting the lies from Cameron Clegg etc. The coalition government inherited a growing economy in 2010. Five consecutive quarters of growth, second quarter of 2010 saw growth at 0.7%, more then double the 0.3% that we saw announced just a few weeks ago. AND the economy is NOW slowing down again; 0.8 third quarter of 2014, 0.6% fourth quarter and then a pitiful 0.3% for the first three months of 2015.

As for the national debt and deficit, prior to the financial crisis CAUSED BY TORY'S MATES, THE BANKERS both the debt and the deficit were lower than what the Labour government inherited from John Major in 1997. And both were consistently lower during the Blair/Brown years than under Thatcher or major.

To counter the collapse in the private sector CAUSED BY THE BANKERS, the then chancellor Alistair Darling introduced sensible Keynesian policies, borrowing to invest, to stop the economy crashing completely. And it was working, hence the economic growth in 2009 and the beginning of 2010.

What then happened was Osbourn's austerity, which sent the economy back into recession. Their cuts had nothing to do with the debt, deficit or indeed the economy. It was simply the Tories doing what they always, bashing the poor and the most vulnerable, cutting back the state, especially local government which they hate and giving tax breaks and cuts to their pals.

Where I will give Cameron and Osbourn credit is for convincing a gullible part of the electorate that the crash was caused by Labour. And, that the government debt and deficit is somehow the most important problem that the UK has to deal with, it is not. Much more urgent is the growing personal debt, (what growth we have seen recently is on credit cards, housing equity and debt. All unsustainable) skill shortages, a low wage economy (which is the real reason why the benefit bill continues to soar, low paid staff working for the big four supermarkets claim £9 billion in benefits every year for example) and a huge balance of trade deficit.
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