Jamie Ellis

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by RonnieGibbs'forearm » 19 Oct 2017, 14:16

duke street 10 wrote:Ellis may prove a shrewd signing. The negative comments of some is understandable for those who have supported the club who have seen us reach the top table,only to make bang average signings in the past and gone backwards.

Mid 90's when that great sides with the 3 kiwis prominent who then left who did we get?...Richard Goddard,Adrian Flynn and Brendon Tuuta (harsh to compare to Nikau mind).

In the early noughties when Raper had us competing we bought in the likes of Darren Shaw,Logan Campbell & Andrew Purcell.

I hope the new signings prove me wrong, but so far kind of concerned we are on a rinse & repeat cycle.
Accurately sums up the roots of the discontent and concern.
Hardaker has a hell of a lot to answer for this though. Club are backed onto a corner somewhat. However fact has remained that we need a couple of first team front rowers. Until that gets sorted the discontent will bubble I imagine.
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by HuddsTigers » 19 Oct 2017, 18:26

duke street 10 wrote:Ellis may prove a shrewd signing. The negative comments of some is understandable for those who have supported the club who have seen us reach the top table,only to make bang average signings in the past and gone backwards.

Mid 90's when that great sides with the 3 kiwis prominent who then left who did we get?...Richard Goddard,Adrian Flynn and Brendon Tuuta (harsh to compare to Nikau mind).

In the early noughties when Raper had us competing we bought in the likes of Darren Shaw,Logan Campbell & Andrew Purcell.

I hope the new signings prove me wrong, but so far kind of concerned we are on a rinse & repeat cycle.
I could understand more if this was a side that hadn't just finished top of the league and made a Grand Final (which no other Cas side has ever done). The simple fact for me is that you always have your first choice 17 and then an underbelly of squad player who can step in for that 17 when injured.

Barring Hardaker, none of the others were in our starting 17. A starting 17 which for large parts was good enough to finish top of the league. If the team can reach the same high standards again, why do we need to waste money on recruiting another top player to dislodge another top player. One of the things I've heard over CTSC meetings across the last few years is about not causing discontent within the squad. Players should want competition for places but they also shouldn't feel like they aren't good enough - AND especially after last season.

We've also had issues over recent years where we've blown our budget on a squad of 20 top level players and had naff all back-up. We actually have done so well over recent years because of our squad depth compared to other teams.

We now have 22 first team players, plus Maher, Egodo, Gill, Douglas and Trueman. We're 4 players short of where we started last season and we added Foster and Larroyer along the way (I'm not including Crooks as he was never part of our squad last year).

A full-back and another prop and we'll be tip top I think.

Monaghan - Lo
Patrick - Clark
Larroyer - Wardle
Fitzsimmons - Foster (who joined mid-season)
T Holmes - Trueman (who wasn't part of our squad)
Rangi - Ellis

That leaves Lynch, Million, Sheehan and Hardaker to replace from our original 30. Million and Sheehan can be replaced by Jacques O'Neill/Cory Aston (he has played a bit at hooker for Sheffield) and Sheehan replaced by Pat Diskin potentially?

That leaves Lynch and Hardaker. Prop we know is a must signing for us and then Hardaker is a bit of an unknown until we know the situation with his contract.
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Casmoley » 19 Oct 2017, 19:09

Are you really comparing fitzimmons to foster? Foster came in because oggy was really struggling with injury and DP wanted Jesse in the middle. With junior injured we were short of a left edge back rower. Enter Foster.

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by CasRus » 19 Oct 2017, 19:42

To be honest, I thought Jamie Ellis was playing some really good rugby for Cas before he left and I predict he will shock some of you doubters out there once DP gets hold of him and tunes him in as he masterly does with others. I predict Ben Roberts may finish at FB but that's not a bad thing when he comes into the line on the flanks as he is strong and will trouble most centres and wingers and I think Ellis has a much better kicking game in attack mode than Benny (which his was abysmal this year!). That's how I see it but who knows !

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Tigerade » 19 Oct 2017, 19:51

CasRus wrote:I think Ellis has a much better kicking game in attack mode than Benny (which his was abysmal this year!).
I'm glad someone else has mentioned it. I thought I might be one of a few who think Ellis will put pressure on Roberts who has had a poor season IMO. Ellis is a good signing and I wouldn't be surprised if he dislodges Roberts from the starting 13 altogether.

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by HuddsTigers » 19 Oct 2017, 19:53

Casmoley wrote:Are you really comparing fitzimmons to foster? Foster came in because oggy was really struggling with injury and DP wanted Jesse in the middle. With junior injured we were short of a left edge back rower. Enter Foster.
Fitzsimmons was a back rower who was in our squad of 30. Foster wasn’t part of our initial squad hence why Foster is replacing Fitzsimmons. He isn’t a direct replacement but for the purpose of outgoings and numbers he fits the point.
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Casmoley » 19 Oct 2017, 19:56

HuddsTigers wrote:
Casmoley wrote:Are you really comparing fitzimmons to foster? Foster came in because oggy was really struggling with injury and DP wanted Jesse in the middle. With junior injured we were short of a left edge back rower. Enter Foster.
Fitzsimmons was a back rower who was in our squad of 30. Foster wasn’t part of our initial squad hence why Foster is replacing Fitzsimmons. He isn’t a direct replacement but for the purpose of outgoings and numbers he fits the point.

You could also argue Luis Johnson is taking Fitzsimmons place as he is also a back rower........

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Sharlotiger » 19 Oct 2017, 20:03

CasRus wrote:To be honest, I thought Jamie Ellis was playing some really good rugby for Cas before he left and I predict he will shock some of you doubters out there once DP gets hold of him and tunes him in as he masterly does with others. I predict Ben Roberts may finish at FB but that's not a bad thing when he comes into the line on the flanks as he is strong and will trouble most centres and wingers and I think Ellis has a much better kicking game in attack mode than Benny (which his was abysmal this year!). That's how I see it but who knows !
Lets remember Powell as already worked with Ellis and he wasn't deemed good enough to displace Sneyd or Finn, he did play ok when coming in as a replacement hooker.
Ellis may have improved whilst he as been on his travels but the fact the Giants shipped him off to HKR when they were really struggling in the halves would suggest not.
As cover for the halves and hooker Ellis is an OK sort of signing, but for being our starting half I aint convinced.

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by CasRus » 19 Oct 2017, 20:21

Well, as they say, time will tell !!

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by TT Tiger » 19 Oct 2017, 20:54

Powell wanted to keep Ellis he’s got the chance of him back and got him. I also remember a game down in London and when he came on he was our best player on the park. That’s what we want players that don’t freeze when we make the big ones.

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by mart0042 » 20 Oct 2017, 10:16

With benny being hot and cold, ellis has a chance to put pressure on him. It's all good in my book. With Trueman and Mclleland slotting in when injuries hit or to rest players. It's a position sorted, among with wingers, centres, second row and loose.
Until we know about Zak we have to be cautious, leaving a prop needed if we don't see will, Brandon or gadwin as shaping up.

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Tigerg » 20 Oct 2017, 11:35

Good signing IMO. This may have been mentioned in one of the previous 8 pages but I couldn’t be bothered reading all the negativity but Ellis is certainly an improvement on Tom Holmes therefore he is an improvement to the squad. In his last season at Cas he played some good stuff. I wouldn’t expect him to start too often if everyone is fully fit but he’s a good back up player and we should get behind him

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Frankas » 20 Oct 2017, 15:00

I wasn't happy when he left for Huddersfield, it was another good player we lost, but I was happy when I eared we had signed him on again. He has a good pair of hands a great kicking game, all in all he is a good halfback what gives us another option.
We have been left on the back foot a bit with the Zak gate, and it has left us looking for a fullback, something we thought we had covered for the next 4 years, hopefully we can get one sorted out before we return for pre season, or next year we might be looking at a make shift on, or a youngster from the 19s
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by HuddsTigers » 23 Oct 2017, 08:42

Ellis says in League Express today:

* He was made an offer to stay last time and turned it down as he was promised the #7 shirt and regular game time at the Giants
* He jumped at the chance to return and absolutely loves the club
* He had an offer from Wakefield and turned this down; Leigh and Widnes also showed interest but never followed it up.
* He expected to be staying at Hull KR but them and Huddersfield couldn't come to an agreement
* He had chance to stay at Huddersfield but told them he didn't want to stay as he didn't feel wanted after being farmed out on loan.
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by cogito ergo sum » 23 Oct 2017, 09:41

Good signing.
Roberts and Gale two top earners, so DP wouldn't be looking for another half back high earner. Ellis fits the bill perfectly, because when he plays in the halves there will be no significant weakness.

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Flat Capper » 23 Oct 2017, 12:44

cogito ergo sum wrote:Good signing.
Roberts and Gale two top earners, so DP wouldn't be looking for another half back high earner. Ellis fits the bill perfectly, because when he plays in the halves there will be no significant weakness.
But the quotes from LE seem to indicate he's after the #7 shirt on a regular basis and not as a 'fill in'.
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by TT Tiger » 23 Oct 2017, 12:50

Don’t forget Gale is in oz so will not have the rest period that the rest of the team have so this will give him the chance of longer recovery at the start of the season

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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by viva brad » 23 Oct 2017, 12:51

But the quotes from LE seem to indicate he's after the #7 shirt on a regular basis and not as a 'fill in'
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by Flat Capper » 23 Oct 2017, 12:57

From a number of posts on the forum as a whole I get the impression the 'small town club' attitude is still the basis on which some fans think we should operate.

Yes, we've just had the most successful 'league' campaign in our history but this should merely be the basis on which we build our future. There are clear areas in which we fall short of perfection and these need to be addressed.

Should we be in the likely position of having to replace ZH we should be striving for the best we can get and not accepting the fact he is impossible to replace. If this requires additional funding then so be it and that may just mean we don't 'waste' money on the likes of Ellis to play second fiddle in a position we already have adequate strength in depth.

We most definitely need some recognized muscle down the middle and again we need to use what resources we have to ensure we achieve this. A few quid on a second rate prop doesn't do the job.

Most importantly of all, we should never be in the position of saying "in DP we trust". He's the best thing to happen to this club in many a year but he remains human and the fact we've released the likes of Larroyer shows he can't always polish the [REMOVED].

We have to improve on last year and for me this requires key investments that will take us to the next level - champions!
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Re: Jamie Ellis

Post by HuddsTigers » 23 Oct 2017, 13:09

I'd say look at recruitment across SL in general and you'll see what's happening to the game in this country.

You can't sign top class players any more and the money isn't there. In fact, the only decent signings are coming from clubs who finished way off the pace of us last season on overseas players. Overseas players who require a lot of money to resettle, and a lot of money for them NOT to settle in this country and go back after a year. They are a huge risk.

Then look at who other clubs have signed:

Huddersfield - Colton Roche
Salford: Derrell Olpherts and Gavin Bennion
St Helens: James Bentley

In fact, of the 27 Super League signings made by clubs so far for next season, 9 of them are from the NRL/overseas (including France). And how many of those NRL players would the average RL fan know before they were signed? They're hardly big name players.

There isn't a market any more for recruitment. A lot of players are signing and staying put for convenience. Gone are the days when there used to be turnover of 7/8 players at each club each year.

Moreover, 70 players have either moved club/retired/moved back to the NRL/been banned at the end of this season. Clubs are having to look in the Championship and promote from within. Exchange rates and other stuff also impact on the game.

I agree we need a prop but I actually think in terms of his experience Ellis is a decent signing. We also don't know what the club's situation is financially, cap-wise, we don't know what Powell has said to SG or what the ability to add mid-season will be (which we like to do). We have a very good squad already.
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