2018 Squad

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princeka01
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2018 Squad

Post by princeka01 » 19 Oct 2017, 17:31

i have been in n out of social media and noticed alot of people are complaining about our signings I.e that they are championship quality at best ...step backwards etc etc ..

People are failing to see the bigger picture that these signings are SQUAD signings and will be used for injurys etc .. the list below are the players left and in .. the big names that have gone are yet to be replaced .. the squad players have been replaced with squad player who in my opinion have more potential
so at the moment it's
Zak - no replacement
chase - Ellis
lynch - no replacement
larne - Clark
llaroyer - Wardle
Monoghan - Gary lo
Holmes - truman(academy)
million- doesn't need replacement
crooks - gill (academy)

Think people need to stop panicking and see that from the list above we will be getting first team replacements for lynch n Zak Powell isn't stupid.. get then 2 replaced with quality and the squad players will really have to fight to get into the starting 17

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Re: 2018 Squad

Post by Fumper27 » 19 Oct 2017, 17:49

Erm, Gill was already in the squad last season. I do, however, think we're a prop or two short

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Re: 2018 Squad

Post by HuddsTigers » 19 Oct 2017, 17:53

Fumper27 wrote:Erm, Gill was already in the squad last season. I do, however, think we're a prop or two short
But he also spent the majority (bar 1 game when we rested our players) on loan/dual reg at Oldham. Hardly a massive part of our squad. Now is the time for him to step up properly and be ready to be called upon as back-up properly
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Re: 2018 Squad

Post by HuddsTigers » 19 Oct 2017, 18:03

I agree with the premise of the original post and can see both sides in a way.

I actually don't mind the recruitment made so far (shock) because they are an improvement in a couple of ways, primarily fitness but also age and in some cases experience. Clark is fitter than Patrick was last season and has age on his side being 24 to develop and improve as a player too. From his highlights, which show attack and defence, it looks like he's very switched on and has a real determination about him. Doesn't like to be stopped and puts himself about.

So if we can get more game time out of him and some impact on the field, that will be one considerable improvement moving forward.

Ellis is a superb acquisition providing he is in competition with Roberts and Gale. I suspect Roberts form towards the back end of last year which became more inconsistent was a bit of a factor. We need to be pushing people and Ellis has shown that he can be a great player in the past for us (joint record points scorer is he not?). He's a right sided half too.

What we need to understand is that while we have an ethos and a style of play, the structure of it, the dynamics and the attacking moves we put on will change, adapt and tweak. We'll adapt our game around the players at our disposal too. We can't keep the same tactics year in, year out, as it becomes easy to stop as teams like Wigan are learning now. Mix it up, have different shapes.

Wardle is a huge coup for the club and I think he's actually a replacement for Crooks rather than Larroyer. We also have to remember Webster is coming towards the end of his career and we'll need a successor. Someone who is in the squad already under contract frees up Webster's salary for a different position, by which time Egodo and Gill should have more experience under their belt.

Lo is a bolter and time will tell on the step-up but Monaghan didn't have the legs and wasn't ever fit enough to make real competition in the squad.
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Re: 2018 Squad

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 19 Oct 2017, 18:14

Terms like "Superb acquisition" and Huge coup" are not what I would use to describe either if those 2 players. Both are coming to Cas after being relative flops over the last year or 2.

If they were anywhere near as "Superb or Huge Coup" as you describe then maybe they would not have been allowed to leave their current clubs?

A superb acquisition would walk in to the team for me and not be seen as "competition" for the current players.

A "Huge Coup" would be a Walmsley or Burgess type.

It appears some people are easily pleased and some not so.

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Re: 2018 Squad

Post by tigerfeat » 19 Oct 2017, 18:18

It was clear monaghan didnt have the legs in his last season at warrington so why the hell did we sign him and put him on a big wage ?
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Re: 2018 Squad

Post by Beth » 19 Oct 2017, 18:23

Two Championship standard players doesn't really strike you with confidence, and I just hope we have some big names coming in. Otherwise we'll slide back down that table.

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Re: 2018 Squad

Post by HuddsTigers » 19 Oct 2017, 18:29

Lofthouse Tiger wrote: If they were anywhere near as "Superb or Huge Coup" as you describe then maybe they would not have been allowed to leave their current clubs?

A superb acquisition would walk in to the team for me and not be seen as "competition" for the current players.

A "Huge Coup" would be a Walmsley or Burgess type.

It appears some people are easily pleased and some not so.
The superb acquisition was in context of the fact that he is in competition for Roberts and Gale, as I mentioned. He's better than Tom Holmes and given we didn't have Rangi for 3/4s of the season then he's better than that too.

On Wardle, he was allowed to leave due to being homesick. He was an outstanding player before he left and that's why he's one of only a few to go over to the NRL and play in the comp. So yes, I think it is a huge coup. I wouldn't be surprised if we beat off a few clubs to sign him largely due to the fact we could pay a fee and we have the best coach in the comp.
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Re: 2018 Squad

Post by HuddsTigers » 19 Oct 2017, 18:34

Beth wrote:Two Championship standard players doesn't really strike you with confidence, and I just hope we have some big names coming in. Otherwise we'll slide back down that table.
Ellis is a Super League player who played in the Champ for a season, in part probably due to the fact that HKR were desperate for a half and also because Hudds needed to offload players to recruit people like Mamo. Given that he's played his entire career in Super League and this is the first step down he's made, I find that a bit unfair. And given most coaches have given him a chance in Super League, then for me he's a solid SL player.

Would you describe Shaun Lunt as Championship standard on the premise of last year? Or Justin Carney? Or Nick Scruton? Perhaps Jewitt and Masoe seeing as they did too?

Incidentally, the reason HKR have also not gone after him again is because they need to cut their squad size considerably to strengthen. They've already got McGuire and Atkin as half-backs, as well as Blair and Matty Marsh as cover.
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Re: 2018 Squad

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 19 Oct 2017, 18:45

There is usually a "Reason" you end up in the Championship either as a team or as an individual. That reason is usually because that is your level.

How many teams lose their so called "Good players" when they go down and then sign "Championship sides" then sign has been and/or never weres to replace them?

When was the last time a championship club signed a "Current" international or 2?

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Re: 2018 Squad

Post by tigerfeat » 19 Oct 2017, 18:51

No one on the hkr board seem bothered hes going i think hel be ok myself as a squad player ,we need two good props not projects or might be ok two good props
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Re: 2018 Squad

Post by HuddsTigers » 19 Oct 2017, 18:54

Leigh have just signed a French international.
Elliott Kear is a Welsh international for London

Or are we only talking Australia, England or NZ international?

How many of our Grand Final players were current internationals when we signed them?

Hardaker - not in 2016 England squad
Shenton - not in 2011 England squad or 2012 England squad
Gale - nope
McShane - nope

The only 3 that can point to being internationals are the 3 Samoan lads - Roberts, JSL and Moors.
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Re: 2018 Squad

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 19 Oct 2017, 18:55

Is that not an indication as to what fans who have seen him regularly think? I would say so. They will have a better idea than we do.

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Re: 2018 Squad

Post by HuddsTigers » 19 Oct 2017, 18:55

Lofthouse Tiger wrote:There is usually a "Reason" you end up in the Championship either as a team or as an individual. That reason is usually because that is your level.

How many teams lose their so called "Good players" when they go down and then sign "Championship sides" then sign has been and/or never weres to replace them?

When was the last time a championship club signed a "Current" international or 2?
Usually being if you play there consistently. Lo and Clark have both been at the Championship level. But so had Walmsley and Hill and Hardaker too!

Awen Guttenbeil stepped down with us, as did Danny Brough. It's flawed logic to assume 1 season in the division makes you a Championship player.

Are we saying the entire Toronto squad is League One standard now too?
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Re: 2018 Squad

Post by HuddsTigers » 19 Oct 2017, 18:57

Lofthouse Tiger wrote:Is that not an indication as to what fans who have seen him regularly think? I would say so. They will have a better idea than we do.
Except we also have an idea about what Ellis can do given he's played for us too. I remember people slating Sneyd, Gale, McShane, McMeeken, etc on here. All to be proven wrong.
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Re: 2018 Squad

Post by Tamworth Tiger » 19 Oct 2017, 19:01

HuddsTigers wrote:
Lofthouse Tiger wrote:Is that not an indication as to what fans who have seen him regularly think? I would say so. They will have a better idea than we do.
Except we also have an idea about what Ellis can do given he's played for us too. I remember people slating Sneyd, Gale, McShane, McMeeken, etc on here. All to be proven wrong.
Sorry to mention, but Solomona from the London fire sale too and before him Finn

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Re: 2018 Squad

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 19 Oct 2017, 19:02

French and Welsh internationals? Really HT?

Hardaker, Shenny and Gale are well known top players and have been internationals at the top level.

How many "Good players" do Lebanon or Russia have? We have a world Cup of many "Rugby league playing nations". How many have any chance of winning it?

How many of those Toronto players would you take HT? Probably none unless DP signed one. Then he would be Superb and Or huge signings.

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Re: 2018 Squad

Post by Lofthouse Tiger » 19 Oct 2017, 19:05

Yes we did have Ellis yet we let him leave. What has he done since? If he was that good Hudds would have kept him.

He has won as many trophies, medals and international caps as me and you have.
Last edited by Lofthouse Tiger on 19 Oct 2017, 19:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2018 Squad

Post by tigerfeat » 19 Oct 2017, 19:09

People who have supported the club a long time will have seen other great sides break up and fall away no one can bargin for what happened to zak but they want to see exciting signings brought in to move the club upwards and onwards and yeah get excited about
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Re: 2018 Squad

Post by HuddsTigers » 19 Oct 2017, 20:00

Lofthouse Tiger wrote:French and Welsh internationals? Really HT?

Hardaker, Shenny and Gale are well known top players and have been internationals at the top level.

How many "Good players" do Lebanon or Russia have? We have a world Cup of many "Rugby league playing nations". How many have any chance of winning it?

How many of those Toronto players would you take HT? Probably none unless DP signed one. Then he would be Superb and Or huge signings.
Gale has never been an international until last year. Hardaker has been in and out the England set up due to form and his indiscretions. Shenton has been the member of our squad to play consistently at a high level but even he’s been in and out the Eng squad.

I mentioned Wales and France as you said international players. I asked for clarification. In which case, Aus and NZ none because they don’t pick players from over here bar Leuluai in recent years. Most of the current Eng squad play in the NRL too and/or are the highest paid players at their clubs and now centrally contracted too in some respects. So being on a central contract means they could be on £150k plus. And they have to want to leave their current club and be available. So let’s be realistic, the only internationals we can realistically target are those outside the big 3.

As for the Toronto squad, I’d have Westerman back. Of their League 1 squad, no. But that wasn’t my point either. The point was are they League 1 players? No they aren’t. Some may well be lower SL/back-up players, some will be Championship players.

Just like not all players playing in the Champ are Champ standard. Shaun Lunt is a SL player, Carney definitely is.
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