New Ground for Cas or NOT !

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mart0042
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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by mart0042 » 09 Aug 2018, 12:58

SREGITSAC wrote:
ERG2012 wrote:I think it's more of a case of Andy would like to see guaranteed funding and solid financials in place along with a time line that is more or less firmed up opposed to it slipping and slipping. He's posted many a time Strong Financial foundations give stability.
Also consider how many retail/shopping areas are within a 30-40min drive. So unless its a cracking bespoke development will it attract retailers and shoppers alike. I think that's what Robbo is getting at. No point in saying we've XYZ retailers signed up if it's only 30% of the whole development.

Just a thought...
Didn’t they already confirm funding?

Re timelines, I reiterate that since issuance of their milestone plan in Feb this year they haven’t moved any dates.
Yes, they have said funding was an issue but is now in place and no timeline has slipped. Until something changes, we can't moan. That's how I see it.

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by JIN JER » 09 Aug 2018, 13:02

Mysterio wrote:Robbo is coming across as one of those passive aggressive folks at work you’d love to smack.
Now I'm not one to advocate violence, but, have you ever been in his company socially? I have and it's not pretty. :)

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by Mysterio » 09 Aug 2018, 21:19

JIN JER wrote:
Mysterio wrote:Robbo is coming across as one of those passive aggressive folks at work you’d love to smack.
Now I'm not one to advocate violence, but, have you ever been in his company socially? I have and it's not pretty. :)
Explain :dance:
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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by JIN JER » 09 Aug 2018, 23:06

Mysterio wrote:
JIN JER wrote:
Mysterio wrote:Robbo is coming across as one of those passive aggressive folks at work you’d love to smack.
Now I'm not one to advocate violence, but, have you ever been in his company socially? I have and it's not pretty. :)
Explain :dance:
See PM.

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by Digger Dave » 10 Aug 2018, 10:26

HuddsTigers wrote:
Digger Dave wrote:£140k is approx 0.1% of the cost of the project so pretty insignificant really.
But in terms of spending money for something that "won't happen", it's a lot of money.... ;)
It's a lot of money to most people but in terms of a development such as this it's peanuts (like I said ca0.1% of the development) and is something that is required IF the project is to go ahead. Delays cost money, and a developer will weigh up the cost of a delay in obtaining planning if/when the project becomes financially viable versus the cost of putting it in early.

How much was spent obtaining planning for the proposed stadium on the other side of the road?
Last edited by Digger Dave on 10 Aug 2018, 10:33, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by Digger Dave » 10 Aug 2018, 10:30

SREGITSAC wrote:
Didn’t they already confirm funding?

Re timelines, I reiterate that since issuance of their milestone plan in Feb this year they haven’t moved any dates.
I believe that they did confirm that funding was in place, but their problem is ensuring they have enough tenants to be able to service the loans that are providing that funding.

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by Robbo » 10 Aug 2018, 20:59

I didn’t know the answers.
I don’t want it to fail
I am just nervous of spin and being fed Bull.
I didn’t attend the presentations due to working full time employing 60 people.
If I upset someone I apologise
Now let’s hope we turn up cause that was dire
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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by TheSheriff » 10 Aug 2018, 21:24

Robbo wrote:I didn’t know the answers.
I don’t want it to fail
I am just nervous of spin and being fed Bull.
I didn’t attend the presentations due to working full time employing 60 people.
If I upset someone I apologise
Now let’s hope we turn up cause that was dire
Robbo
Spin? Nearly everything is coming from planning applications - that isn't spin is pure facts :lol:

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by HuddsTigers » 10 Aug 2018, 22:13

I hasten to add I’m being told nothing at all from anyone involved or anyone at the club before anyone accuses me of that now or in the future.

I only post info published elsewhere. There are 4 pending planning applications waiting for approval relating to various factors.
In the spirit of the final Blackadder episode - Goooodbyeee!

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by flow » 10 Aug 2018, 22:24

HuddsTigers wrote:I hasten to add I’m being told nothing at all from anyone involved or anyone at the club before anyone accuses me of that now or in the future.

I only post info published elsewhere. There are 4 pending planning applications waiting for approval relating to various factors.
Hudds would you bet your own money on it being. Built i now i would not

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by The Firm » 10 Aug 2018, 22:35

It’s quite simple really. The developers want this to happen as it would make them a fortune. For it to happen there needs to be enough retail units taken up and for retailers to be interested in these it needs to look like it will happen and at a decent timescale. So the developer has no real option to speculate and pay various fees to make it look viable. But the cold hard facts are until those retail units have occupancy contracts attached to them then it won’t happen. If/when enough are signed up it will. As it stands we aren’t at that point yet so people are right to be nervous.

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by HuddsTigers » 10 Aug 2018, 22:51

flow wrote:
HuddsTigers wrote:I hasten to add I’m being told nothing at all from anyone involved or anyone at the club before anyone accuses me of that now or in the future.

I only post info published elsewhere. There are 4 pending planning applications waiting for approval relating to various factors.
Hudds would you bet your own money on it being. Built i now i would not
I think there’s two elements at play here. One, I think the money promised and invested makes me feel confident that you wouldn’t pump it all in and submit a planning application for all these elements without believing it could get built. Given this is for the retail element as well as the stadium, that gives me more hope than before. Lateral have not publicly released information and there could be a lot behind the scenes that is contingent on final approval, hence why it hasn’t been released. Without any knowledge of how it works, I don’t believe Leeds Regional Development fund would just hand over a loan without some reassurances that over future funding/getting their money back.

Secondly, I think it would reflect badly on WMDC if a second development failed to transpire (Wakey and ours). Politically they have a lot riding on this (investment on roads, money into the town centre, sporting facilities). If it fails, I think it will reflect badly on our Labour-led council about the diminishing and reduced sporting facilities (and quality of them in the area), as well as lacking a premier sporting club to hang their hat on, and both clubs will be looking at them to find some cash or do something quickly to build a new stadium in the district. Outside of that, the development has huge support from people like Gary Verity too.

It’s a constantly moving chess board. I could be wildly wrong or it could all be just nothing more than hypothetics on my part. But I’m more confident on this than the Waystone development, which required us to fund it.
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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by flow » 10 Aug 2018, 23:04

HuddsTigers wrote:
flow wrote:
HuddsTigers wrote:I hasten to add I’m being told nothing at all from anyone involved or anyone at the club before anyone accuses me of that now or in the future.

I only post info published elsewhere. There are 4 pending planning applications waiting for approval relating to various factors.
Hudds would you bet your own money on it being. Built i now i would not
I think there’s two elements at play here. One, I think the money promised and invested makes me feel confident that you wouldn’t pump it all in and submit a planning application for all these elements without believing it could get built. Given this is for the retail element as well as the stadium, that gives me more hope than before. Lateral have not publicly released information and there could be a lot behind the scenes that is contingent on final approval, hence why it hasn’t been released. Without any knowledge of how it works, I don’t believe Leeds Regional Development fund would just hand over a loan without some reassurances that over future funding/getting their money back.

Secondly, I think it would reflect badly on WMDC if a second development failed to transpire (Wakey and ours). Politically they have a lot riding on this (investment on roads, money into the town centre, sporting facilities). If it fails, I think it will reflect badly on our Labour-led council about the diminishing and reduced sporting facilities (and quality of them in the area), as well as lacking a premier sporting club to hang their hat on, and both clubs will be looking at them to find some cash or do something quickly to build a new stadium in the district. Outside of that, the development has huge support from people like Gary Verity too.

It’s a constantly moving chess board. I could be wildly wrong or it could all be just nothing more than hypothetics on my part. But I’m more confident on this than the Waystone development, which required us to fund it.
So you would bet your own money on it getting built a simple yes or no would have being. Sufficient lol

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by HuddsTigers » 10 Aug 2018, 23:13

But there isn’t a straight yes or no answer, simply because I don’t know enough about everything behind the scenes! Do I believe it will happen? Yes. Does it mean it will? No.
In the spirit of the final Blackadder episode - Goooodbyeee!

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by lurcher » 10 Aug 2018, 23:23

HuddsTigers wrote:
flow wrote:
HuddsTigers wrote:I hasten to add I’m being told nothing at all from anyone involved or anyone at the club before anyone accuses me of that now or in the future.

I only post info published elsewhere. There are 4 pending planning applications waiting for approval relating to various factors.
Hudds would you bet your own money on it being. Built i now i would not
I think there’s two elements at play here. One, I think the money promised and invested makes me feel confident that you wouldn’t pump it all in and submit a planning application for all these elements without believing it could get built. Given this is for the retail element as well as the stadium, that gives me more hope than before. Lateral have not publicly released information and there could be a lot behind the scenes that is contingent on final approval, hence why it hasn’t been released. Without any knowledge of how it works, I don’t believe Leeds Regional Development fund would just hand over a loan without some reassurances that over future funding/getting their money back.

Secondly, I think it would reflect badly on WMDC if a second development failed to transpire (Wakey and ours). Politically they have a lot riding on this (investment on roads, money into the town centre, sporting facilities). If it fails, I think it will reflect badly on our Labour-led council about the diminishing and reduced sporting facilities (and quality of them in the area), as well as lacking a premier sporting club to hang their hat on, and both clubs will be looking at them to find some cash or do something quickly to build a new stadium in the district. Outside of that, the development has huge support from people like Gary Verity too.

It’s a constantly moving chess board. I could be wildly wrong or it could all be just nothing more than hypothetics on my part. But I’m more confident on this than the Waystone development, which required us to fund it.
this bloke getting involved is a massive vote of confidence for me
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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by Robbo » 11 Aug 2018, 09:03

First note of caution from Hudd

Retail sector is a mess and gary Verity is not an investor.

Monks cross in York has one whole section now closed.

The reason why this is the first such development for 18 years tells you there is little demand. If there was more would be built.

I just think we should have a plan b or even a small group working on one.
We could be out of SL because we sit waiting for this.
The developers are making money but for fans it could be the end.
For starters my plan b would be sell WR for up to 6 or 7 m
Build the stadium and raise 3/5 from council/ lottery / sport England etc

Yes we would get that for WR I passed info on last week to a director from a buyer of 3 acres of current site for 3 m

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by HuddsTigers » 11 Aug 2018, 09:44

The council will give us nowt. They haven’t got a pot to pee in and can’t justify it. And you have to bear in mind that it isn’t just the size of the land to take into consideration but the cost with clearing the site and also it’s location in a flood risk zone, which will potentially limit any price realised. I’m pretty sure you were on here last year telling us that WR was only worth £3.5m-£4m possibly less once we had repaid the Fulton loans. Make your mind up Robbo, or are you really telling me that land prices have increased by 100% in 12 months?

Your plan is exactly the same as the Waystone one which failed. We cannot build a stadium by self-funding it, plain and simple. Look at every stadium ever built in Super League - a council has either wholly financed it or has worked with bigger companies to deliver it. Salford - Council and Peel Holdings; Warrington - Tesco; Wigan (football), Huddersfield (football), Leeds (Council have loaned them the cash), Saints - had their old ground bought and they were used for PP of a wider development around their ground.

Any plan B will involve a groundshare between Wakefield and ourselves, and possibly Featherstone. That will rely on the council stumping up all £12m and running it as a community ground leaving WR as our asset to sell and a nice amount in the bank or to leave as training facilities.

Plan C will be redoing Wheldon Road up but we will need WMDC to step up like has been done for Leeds. You see that’s our biggest problem - our council has done naff all for our district and sat on their thumbs. Leeds has built a new arena, funded redevelopments for stadia, and grown the retail elements there. WMDC has built an art gallery and given some train stations a lick of paint.

And I never said Gary Verity was an investor. I said there was a political will and referenced him as a supporter of the project.
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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by casjunction » 11 Aug 2018, 09:54

Seconds out round zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by Robbo » 11 Aug 2018, 11:04

I am just saying there is a potential 2.5 to 3 m for 3 acres on the table
Of course subject to our old friend PP
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Re: New Ground for Cas or NOT !

Post by TheSheriff » 11 Aug 2018, 11:10

Robbo wrote:I am just saying there is a potential 2.5 to 3 m for 3 acres on the table
Of course subject to our old friend PP
Let me guess, there'd be something in it for you or one of your mates and that's why you're suddenly pushing it...

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