Simply not good enough

[HuddsTigers]

Losing Zak makes no difference to our ability to defend.

We have gone from having a right edge of Minikin, Webster, Roberts and McMeeken to Minikin, Foster, Rankin and Holmes.

A Minikin who is a shadow of the 2017 player, his confidence looks shot. Foster who isn’t a centre, Rankin who is half decent but not as defensively solid as Roberts and Holmes who doesn’t look fit and isn’t a right edge player.

A full back can only do so much - it’s the 12 in front that are the problem. Even the best full back in the world wouldn’t have altered that last night.

[old cas lass]

Losing Zak makes no difference to our ability to defend.

We have gone from having a right edge of Minikin, Webster, Roberts and McMeeken to Minikin, Foster, Rankin and Holmes.

A Minikin who is a shadow of the 2017 player, his confidence looks shot. Foster who isn’t a centre, Rankin who is half decent but not as defensively solid as Roberts and Holmes who doesn’t look fit and isn’t a right edge player.

A full back can only do so much - it’s the 12 in front that are the problem. Even the best full back in the world wouldn’t have altered that last night.

Sorry hudds I disagree.
Hardaker was the master of organising our defence and what was infront of him.
He read the game like a book.

Not saying we would of won last night with hardaker, but I think our defence would have been more organised.

[derbystiger]

Losing Zak makes no difference to our ability to defend.

Come on Hudds, you can’t really believe that it makes no difference? Yes, we had better players on the right, but Zak organised everything from the back. He was constantly marshalling his players and putting them where they needed to be. He did make a difference.

[fords]

Losing Zak makes no difference to our ability to defend.

We have gone from having a right edge of Minikin, Webster, Roberts and McMeeken to Minikin, Foster, Rankin and Holmes.

A Minikin who is a shadow of the 2017 player, his confidence looks shot. Foster who isn’t a centre, Rankin who is half decent but not as defensively solid as Roberts and Holmes who doesn’t look fit and isn’t a right edge player.

A full back can only do so much - it’s the 12 in front that are the problem. Even the best full back in the world wouldn’t have altered that last night.

Sorry hudds I disagree.
Hardaker was the master of organising our defence and what was infront of him.
He read the game like a book.

Not saying we would of won last night with hardaker, but I think our defence would have been more organised.

yes but the players in front of him still have to tackle. Which in 2019 they seem to have lost the ability to do so.

[HuddsTigers]

That’s what forums are for. But look at the Hardaker at Wigan now. That’s what we would have had, had he wanted to stay.

When Lomax and Taia are running over the top of your right edge from five yards out because they don’t move, I don’t think any full back could have saved or organised that. It’s just rank bad defending. Also a problem that has been flagged several times that other than Milner (who misses more than he hits, and when he does hit we usually get penalised) we have no line speed, nothing. No one wants to attack the attacker in defence.

Compare Saints to us last night again - they were up and at us, in our faces.

[HuddsTigers]

Losing Zak makes no difference to our ability to defend.

Come on Hudds, you can’t really believe that it makes no difference? Yes, we had better players on the right, but Zak organised everything from the back. He was constantly marshalling his players and putting them where they needed to be. He did make a difference.

Are we really saying Matautia isn’t doing the same? Our ability to defend isn’t from the opposition 30m line, it’s on our own line 10m out. So many soft tries are coming from close to us. No full back could save them.

[lurcher]

With tonights game now confined to the history books, so what have we learnt....
1) The lack of big game mentality and mind set still exists.
2) Man for man not as good as the opposition.
3) The spine of the team not at the same level of the opposition and the 2017 squad.
4) The winning formula and togetherness that was the 2017 squad is not evident.
5) Recruitment in key positions poor when previous quality players have left the club.
6) We have not hammered a team since Leeds in 2017 at home.
7) Saints where white hot tonight and Cas did not turn up so always a mismatch.

On this performance it seems we are still missing the right formula. Has winning 4 out of 4 hidden bigger flaws in our setup which was highlighted tonight......

When did our half backs last make a clean break and score from it?
Is Peanut any better than Turner? I agree that he is steady under the high ball but does he do enough in the attacking line......

The golden ticket was Zak. He set the line and dictated the play along with Gale which set the platform for the forwards to make the yards.

Did Powell really want to loose Zak? If the truth is known I think he would have given him one last chance after serving his ban. Its amazing that since we have not had Zak in our line up, we have struggled to be ruthless in attack and defence.

I know that nothing is won in March but we said that last year and look what happened in the Semi Final......

Whatever the answer, then it needs fixing up and fast.

if he gave him one more chance then zac would have used up that chance with the drink driving offence and DP would have looked stupid.

[the machine]

When you hear the rumours of the salaries of some of directors it makes no wonder we are not in a position to pay for top class players. If we want to compete for silverware we must have a replacement for Gale and a centre.

Roberts money should be spent on Hastings (23). Him and trueman (19) were set for many years to come.

Get rid of Maher, Ellis, Aston, Egodo and bring in a centre and a winger if possible or even just a top class winger (have we signed Lineham ?. Could look something like

Turner
Lineham
PM
Shenton
Eden
Hastings
Trueman

No chance of Hastings, he'll be back in NRL soon enough

[Easy Tiger 2]

Losing Zak makes no difference to our ability to defend.

We have gone from having a right edge of Minikin, Webster, Roberts and McMeeken to Minikin, Foster, Rankin and Holmes.

A Minikin who is a shadow of the 2017 player, his confidence looks shot. Foster who isn’t a centre, Rankin who is half decent but not as defensively solid as Roberts and Holmes who doesn’t look fit and isn’t a right edge player.

A full back can only do so much - it’s the 12 in front that are the problem. Even the best full back in the world wouldn’t have altered that last night.

How the hell can losing one of the best defensive full backs I’ve ever seen not make a difference to how we defend?!

I agree having Hardaker at full back would have made no difference last night as they were all poor to a man but his organisation and tackling would have been an improvement

[HuddsTigers]

I just don’t think it is. I think we have lost the tenacity and urgency in our defence. Hardaker was a component of that but I think we are searching for reasons and clinging on to anything outside that we can blame. For me, it doesn’t matter who your full back is. Fact is that the players last night weren’t caught out of position or done by men over, they were done by not being able to effect tackles or defend full stop.

Training this week really needs to involve our left edge playing against our right edge in a side game on a small 4G pitch or something. They need to be peppered with kicks bombs and players running at them. Drill it into them until they know every single thing. If they can’t do it or they aren’t listening to instructions then they shouldn’t be in the team.

[tigerfeat]

Since day one Powell as got the best out of what teams like saints would consider average players certainly players they would never think of signing
He's been asked to be a miracle worker trying to produce a edge without a recognised centre and a wingman who's not top four super league standard
You can do all the training you want but the end result is always going to be the same when you've got international players running at mediocre defenders

[ERG2012]

I just don’t think it is. I think we have lost the tenacity and urgency in our defence. Hardaker was a component of that but I think we are searching for reasons and clinging on to anything outside that we can blame. For me, it doesn’t matter who your full back is. Fact is that the players last night weren’t caught out of position or done by men over, they were done by not being able to effect tackles or defend full stop.

Training this week really needs to involve our left edge playing against our right edge in a side game on a small 4G pitch or something. They need to be peppered with kicks bombs and players running at them. Drill it into them until they know every single thing. If they can’t do it or they aren’t listening to instructions then they shouldn’t be in the team.

All well and good however Shenny is not the same threat physically as Hurrell......

[cogito ergo sum]

Since day one Powell as got the best out of what teams like saints would consider average players certainly players they would never think of signing
He's been asked to be a miracle worker trying to produce a edge without a recognised centre and a wingman who's not top four super league standard
You can do all the training you want but the end result is always going to be the same when you've got international players running at mediocre defenders

Saints tried to sign Matautia, they were interested in Minikim and Meeks...

[HuddsTigers]

I just don’t think it is. I think we have lost the tenacity and urgency in our defence. Hardaker was a component of that but I think we are searching for reasons and clinging on to anything outside that we can blame. For me, it doesn’t matter who your full back is. Fact is that the players last night weren’t caught out of position or done by men over, they were done by not being able to effect tackles or defend full stop.

Training this week really needs to involve our left edge playing against our right edge in a side game on a small 4G pitch or something. They need to be peppered with kicks bombs and players running at them. Drill it into them until they know every single thing. If they can’t do it or they aren’t listening to instructions then they shouldn’t be in the team.

All well and good however Shenny is not the same threat physically as Hurrell......

Let’s stick Junior Moors at centre then

[old cas lass]

I just don’t think it is. I think we have lost the tenacity and urgency in our defence. Hardaker was a component of that but I think we are searching for reasons and clinging on to anything outside that we can blame. For me, it doesn’t matter who your full back is. Fact is that the players last night weren’t caught out of position or done by men over, they were done by not being able to effect tackles or defend full stop.

Training this week really needs to involve our left edge playing against our right edge in a side game on a small 4G pitch or something. They need to be peppered with kicks bombs and players running at them. Drill it into them until they know every single thing. If they can’t do it or they aren’t listening to instructions then they shouldn’t be in the team.

All well and good however Shenny is not the same threat physically as Hurrell......

Let’s stick Junior Moors at centre then

Now there a thought.

[fords]

Since day one Powell as got the best out of what teams like saints would consider average players certainly players they would never think of signing
He's been asked to be a miracle worker trying to produce a edge without a recognised centre and a wingman who's not top four super league standard
You can do all the training you want but the end result is always going to be the same when you've got international players running at mediocre defenders

"He's been asked to be a miracle worker trying to produce a edge without a recognised centre and a wingman who's not top four super league standard"

No he hasn't. He had a choice in the off season and could of brought people in but he (or somebody) choose not to and new were paying the price. Like 2018 with the FB role.

These are the questions that should be been asked.

[tigerfeat]

We tried to sign Williame in April we were still trying to get a centre with sau in November maybe Powell thought sod it il go with what I got

[fords]

We tried to sign Williame in April we were still trying to get a centre with sau in November maybe Powell thought sod it il go with what I got

Who knows but one things for sure he hasn't be asked to be a miracle worker as you suggested.

[tigerfeat]

And I'm not saying Powell can do no wrong im sure he expected minikin to do a better job than he as but for whatever reason we went into a season two good players short hence were now trying all we can to bring at least one good outside back in

[Mysterio]

Hudds I think you speak out of order calling out Milner and saying even when he manages a decent hit we get penalised. Players go through phases of form, just like posters like you with that particular comment.

Your comments In terms of Hardaker not making a huge difference defensively and it not mattering who the full back is really is beyond comprehension.

Perhaps saints wouldn’t have got to 10m from our line so often had Zak been organising from the back, and would have been 30m further back; controlled.

The try saving tackle he made the other night was one of the very best I’ve ever seen too, and that was made over the line, following a line break. If he was available now Daryl would have him, no doubt about it, and it would make a difference.