Wakey to get new ground maybe

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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by The Firm » 07 Apr 2017, 16:51

They really are unbelievable. Carter was only on the radio the other weekend stating categorically they aren't asking the council for money. Except they are asking the council for money, they've just put it in black and white. So he blatantly lied. Just like the trust members are either lying about not knowing about Newcold not cointing or they are totally incompetent. If the council tell them anything other than to stick it then we should be banging on the town hall door monday morning asking where's our £2million. Fev should do the same.

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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by lurcher » 07 Apr 2017, 16:55

they really ought to have read that back a few times before releasing it as they seem to contradict themselves a few times.
I get the feeling that WMDC have held a little back and have some more ammo which they will use if the trust push too hard.
phrases in the statement such as "we seem to recall" are meaningless.
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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by duke street 10 » 07 Apr 2017, 17:01

Given the council cuts across the district...do you think thats a saving of £2m?

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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by alcasfan » 07 Apr 2017, 17:07

I "seem to recall" that I put a few posts on their forum at the time about the Newcold PA not contributing, but it was also the time that posts by any Cas fans (Fully,Tigerade,and others) not towing the line came in for abuse and were deleted left right and centre by certain Mods.

It would be interesting to know who Rodney is lining up for his "New" Trust to take over !!

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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by HuddsTigers » 07 Apr 2017, 17:33

alcasfan wrote:
Tigerade wrote:The trust knew all along.

#TheTrustKnew
From the Trust's response today
"In any event as far as we are aware there was no mention of Newcold being excluded from the obligations of the Unilateral Undertaking in any of the papers on the planning portal or public consultations until the final papers for the Planning Meeting which were issued a week before the meeting which was after the period for comments and objections had passed."


Untrue! Its in the Design and Access statement in Black and White
Of course, they are arguing the wording is ambiguous. My motto is 'if in doubt, seek clarification'
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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by HuddsTigers » 07 Apr 2017, 17:34

alcasfan wrote:Just read this from MC

“At no point were current members of the stadium trust aware that the Newcold site would not count towards the Unilateral Agreement"

That statement is frankly Incredible!!!
Actually the wording is very coy.

The key part is 'current members'. RW is no longer a current member. However, blaming that on the council is ridiculous I agree. They should be banging down the door at RW if that's the reason no one knew. Or they should have put the Trust in the hands of someone from the club as I mentioned earlier.
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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by HuddsTigers » 07 Apr 2017, 18:02

Wakefield Trinity will indeed be the anchor tenant but will not be the owner, that will be the Wakefield & District Community Trust who will take the stadium on a 99 year lease from the Developer
Only because they don't have a pot to pee in and this is the only way they can even afford to get a new stadium, as with us. They are primary anchor tenants - has anyone else been offered to share in it? Has anyone else been approached, outside of the club, to be on the Trust to make sure it truly is for the citizens of Wakefield and not just WT? Will WT get preferential treatment or can another sport/club come in and take control? If not, why not, as a COMMUNITY facility - allegedly.
The Councils claim that they are not a party to or a beneficiary of the Unilateral Undertaking is utter nonsense. The UU is a legally binding contact and for a contact to be made there has to be at least 2 parties one of which gives something and the other party receives something. In the case of the UU it is given by Oldroyd (Landowner), Clydesdale Bank (Mortgagee) and Yorkcourt (Developer) and is GIVEN to Wakefield MDC.
Erm, isn't it a case that it's what Yorkcourt will give to the landowner and what Clydesdale Bank provide in terms of loans/capital to facilitate that? I could share a contract with someone else - doesn't mean they are contractually bound by it or party to it?
The Council are correct, none of the trigger points referred to in the UU have yet been reached and it is indeed up to the developer how quick he brings forward development and it is encouraging to hear that once the triggers have been met the Council are fully Committed to ensure that the UU is fulfilled.
So why continue to imply the council are reneging on what was promised like they are the ones building the stadium? It may not have been built still even now, even if it had counted and that's nothing the council can force, as they've acknowledged readily in their statement.
However the Trust is not the beneficiary nor a party to the UU so has no authority whatsoever in enforcing it.


As per the above - surely the beneficiaries are the parties mentioned in the document, the council are just the facilitators for when the development is brought forward to make sure that the agreement legally dots the i's and t's for any development in relation to the original planning application? It was a new one, so by the very nature, surely a new S106 agreement or UU was made for the Newcold application?
We totally agree with the Council and accept that the Newcold application had by law to be a standalone application rather than a reserve matters application due to the height of the building. However the Council have been silent on the fact that the application specifically excluded the floorspace from the obligations of the Unilateral Undertaking.
Anyone can have access to the planning portal. The council promote planning applications through many mediums, as they have to do so by law, no? It isn't their fault the Trust didn't see it/object to it/or do anything about it.
The Council claim this was communicated to the Trust at a meeting with the Chief Executive and the Corporate Director for Regeneration and Economic Growth. We know that the meeting only involved Sir Rodney Walker, the then Chair of the Trust and for whatever reason only known to himself he failed to inform any other member of the Trust Board. It is therefore hardly surprising that no objections to the Newcold planning application were submitted from the Trust, community pressure groups or the public when, except for Sir Rodney Walker, all were oblivious to the fact that the large Newcold development contributed absolutely nothing to the 60,000 m2 trigger. Had they been made aware we feel sure that objections would have been raised.
Again, not the council's fault.
The Council’s statement refers to a full planning application for the 22,300m2 Newcold development and had it have contributed to the 60,000m2 trigger we would still be short of the trigger. Unless we are mistaken the Newcold application was for twice the size actually constructed which was approved and Newcold have recently commenced construction on the extension that will bring the total floorspace constructed to around 44,600m2.

When completed there would only remain around 15,400m2 or a little over 25% of the 60,000m2 trigger remaining. Therefore the exclusion of Newcold has serious implications on the delivery of the community stadium
.

This is fair comment and I can understand the frustrations with this point.
We find it encouraging that the Council refer that during informal conversation with the Trust that they are prepared to make a similar contribution to the offer made in 2009 and by that we take it the £2m could be back on the table and the Trust will be more than happy to discuss this further with the Council.
I read it as they are prepared to make a financial contribution but the Trust also have to secure some of that £2m funding too facilitate the criteria of the planning application. Moreover, I'm sure that fans of CTRLFC and Featherstone would object to the use of public funding being given to this purpose when there are 3 clubs in the district and the drastic cuts of public services and community swimming facilities across the Five Towns. It would be a travesty if this was allowed.

----

To provide some balance in this, I do feel for Wakefield fans. It's clear that there's a few bits in there that have contributed to the project not moving forward. Notably, they are right in that had the Newcold application contributed they would be a whole lot closer to the project being started and even completed. It may have also encouraged the Trust, the club and Yorkcourt to move forward together with the council to try and find additional partners of the site to satisfy the remaining part. I feel strongly that if this was Cas, we would be doing exactly the same and would be rightly peed off in equal measure.

But they continue to point the finger in the wrong places for a lot of things. On what LEGAL grounds did the council have to deny the new application? No objections to it from anyone and it had to be submitted as a new application as they suggested. As a new application, it is entirely up to Yorkcourt as to whether they tie it to the old planning application or not. Had the council denied it on the premise that it should be tied to the original application, then I'm fairly confident Yorkcourt could have looked towards appealing, which may not have ruled in the Trust's favour anyway. Who is banging on the door of Yorkcourt? Who is putting the Trust member that resigned at the forefront? Why blame solely Box? Why not look at who was on the planning committee that day who didn't object?

I do feel for Wakefield in some respects - as Steve Gill said on RL on RY podcast earlier in the week, we'd love nothing more than a strong district. Big sell out derbies and two successful teams. Also, just to try and improve the look of Super League in terms of financial prowess. As a district, we have no real successful sporting affinities to shout about. And as towns and cities, we don't have much in the way of tourism attractions, or vibrant other facilities to get people excited about visiting. Castleford, Wakefield and Featherstone are lifeblood of their respective areas and do a lot of good in the community. Successful sides can only aid in sharing that wealth outwards.

Best of luck to them in their fight. Losing them out the district would be a big loss to CTRLFC in terms of revenue and rivalry, particularly if they went down the swanny. We have may have had our spats in the past - and certain Wakefield fans may not like me - but we are no longer in a them vs us scenario, which we were forced into in the past and was the cause of many arguments. We should all want both clubs to thrive.
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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by duke street 10 » 08 Apr 2017, 18:03

Carter's plea to try and get the City's people off their bar stools on a weekend & down to Belle Vue is working a treat.

Crowd just over 4K?. Can't be just down to their current surroundings can it?

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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by alcasfan » 08 Apr 2017, 18:48

"Sir Rodney announced that as of 2.00pm he would resign from the Trust and that he was in the process of establishing another Trust with 4 new Trustees which would deliver the community stadium rather than the Wakefield & District Community Trust."
So! Who is involved in this with Sir Rod, I wonder ?

Personally, the mention of his name and the word Trust in the same sentence is quite amusing!

#WheresRodney

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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by duke street 10 » 08 Apr 2017, 19:59

alcasfan wrote:
"Sir Rodney announced that as of 2.00pm he would resign from the Trust and that he was in the process of establishing another Trust with 4 new Trustees which would deliver the community stadium rather than the Wakefield & District Community Trust."
So! Who is involved in this with Sir Rod, I wonder ?

Personally, the mention of his name and the word Trust in the same sentence is quite amusing!

#WheresRodney

#Rodneyknew
Both parties should meet on the Common at dawn for a duel for the honour to be the one TRUE trust :)

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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by The Fox » 08 Apr 2017, 21:34

Are they "The People's Popular Front of Judea" or "The Popular People's Front of Judea"

Splitters!!

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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by The Firm » 08 Apr 2017, 21:51

They've set themselves up for a fall by saying they want a new agreement drawing up. There's now nothing to stop the council & the developer writing the new trust into the wording rather than the current one. If it is written in a way that benefits the 'community' how could they argue it? They really aren't very bright are they.

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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by TheSheriff » 08 Apr 2017, 23:40

The Firm wrote:They really aren't very bright are they.
Considering that mentally imbalanced loon Vastypants seems to be a mouthpiece (or at the very least cheerleader) for them, no they aren't very bright.

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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by 43s flyer » 09 Apr 2017, 00:08

:shock: I think their all on acid, far out man

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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by Nev » 12 Apr 2017, 15:38

http://www.wakefield.gov.uk/Pages/News/PR8531.aspx
Positive for Wakey but no guarantee they'll build anything else on the site to reach the trigger point.

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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by The Firm » 12 Apr 2017, 16:00

They are also getting the £2million from the council if they ask for it. We should be putting our request in as well asap.

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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by duke street 10 » 12 Apr 2017, 17:29

Sounds like Newmarket could be built after all...wonder what would happen if Yorkcourt (or whatever they are called now) went bust when the trigger point is hit?

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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by Sharlotiger » 12 Apr 2017, 17:38

The Firm wrote:They are also getting the £2million from the council if they ask for it. We should be putting our request in as well asap.
Should be straight in for our £2million and make our proposed ground into a proper stadium and get the corners filled in.

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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by Raj Poot Wildcat » 12 Apr 2017, 19:25

Sharlotiger wrote:
The Firm wrote:They are also getting the £2million from the council if they ask for it. We should be putting our request in as well asap.
Should be straight in for our £2million and make our proposed ground into a proper stadium and get the corners filled in.
A £ to a penny says you'll be getting the £2m if the developers can show they can deliver your project. The race is on, Newmarket I make odds on favourite to be first.

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Re: Wakey to get new ground maybe

Post by HuddsTigers » 12 Apr 2017, 21:43

Given our groundworks are in place to start next month and we have funding, that's doubtful.

You don't have a penny yet. And you still have £2m to raise, which from reading the council comments suggests they expect you to raise something and they will supply part of that, not all of it.
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